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	<title>Comments on: Does Ken Clark Understand the Modern Yellow Pages Industry?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thedeets.com/2009/02/20/does-ken-clark-understand-the-modern-yellow-pages-industry/</link>
	<description>Consistently against torture.</description>
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		<title>By: Ed Kohler</title>
		<link>http://www.thedeets.com/2009/02/20/does-ken-clark-understand-the-modern-yellow-pages-industry/#comment-8965</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Kohler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 18:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedeets.com/?p=3114#comment-8965</guid>
		<description>Matt, great point about the changes to the market and how it&#039;s not exactly helping local businesses. 

I don&#039;t think regulating the market down to one book is the answer. I think the market will correct itself as local businesses give up on YP advertising in favor of the many other marketing channels where they may be able to more cost-effectively reach their prospective customers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, great point about the changes to the market and how it&#8217;s not exactly helping local businesses. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think regulating the market down to one book is the answer. I think the market will correct itself as local businesses give up on YP advertising in favor of the many other marketing channels where they may be able to more cost-effectively reach their prospective customers.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Kohler</title>
		<link>http://www.thedeets.com/2009/02/20/does-ken-clark-understand-the-modern-yellow-pages-industry/#comment-8964</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Kohler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 18:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedeets.com/?p=3114#comment-8964</guid>
		<description>Ann, it doesn&#039;t take a PhD in Yellow Pages advertising to realize that the ROI on a phone book delivered to a boarded up house is zero. Same goes for delivering books to people who&#039;ve stated that they no longer use them. Local advertisers, tax payers, and the environment lose by having to deal with what is born as trash in the form of yellow pages spam.

I don&#039;t think the &quot;Internet interests&quot; need to pay anyone to &quot;evangelize the demise of the YPs&quot; since people seem to be perfectly willing to do so for free. Like me. Companies like Google aren&#039;t crushing the YP industry due to bad PR. It&#039;s because they&#039;ve innovated at a faster rate than the YP companies and have won over consumers with a better search product.

If you have better luck with a print directory, good for you. I&#039;m not suggesting that your print directory should be taken away. Only that yellow pages companies should start treating local businesses better by not wasting their money delivering phone books to people who no longer use them (or can&#039;t use them because the people don&#039;t actually exist like in the case of abandoned homes).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ann, it doesn&#8217;t take a PhD in Yellow Pages advertising to realize that the ROI on a phone book delivered to a boarded up house is zero. Same goes for delivering books to people who&#8217;ve stated that they no longer use them. Local advertisers, tax payers, and the environment lose by having to deal with what is born as trash in the form of yellow pages spam.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the &#8220;Internet interests&#8221; need to pay anyone to &#8220;evangelize the demise of the YPs&#8221; since people seem to be perfectly willing to do so for free. Like me. Companies like Google aren&#8217;t crushing the YP industry due to bad PR. It&#8217;s because they&#8217;ve innovated at a faster rate than the YP companies and have won over consumers with a better search product.</p>
<p>If you have better luck with a print directory, good for you. I&#8217;m not suggesting that your print directory should be taken away. Only that yellow pages companies should start treating local businesses better by not wasting their money delivering phone books to people who no longer use them (or can&#8217;t use them because the people don&#8217;t actually exist like in the case of abandoned homes).</p>
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		<title>By: Ann</title>
		<link>http://www.thedeets.com/2009/02/20/does-ken-clark-understand-the-modern-yellow-pages-industry/#comment-8962</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedeets.com/?p=3114#comment-8962</guid>
		<description>Ed if you don&#039;t use it, how can you proport yourself to be an expert?  My guess is that the Internet interests are paying you to evangelize the demise of the YPs.  I&#039;ve seen it done in other industries.  And, having advertised on the Internet, my sense is that the real opportunity to clean up listings and opt out resides with these companies, not the YPs -- it&#039;s a red herring. And, I am not paid by the YPs industry, I am the target market, and an avid Internet user.  Having just tested the use of the YPs and the Internet, I found that I was able to find, quickly, a pool of more accurately presented potential providers of a new roof, than was available on Google.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed if you don&#8217;t use it, how can you proport yourself to be an expert?  My guess is that the Internet interests are paying you to evangelize the demise of the YPs.  I&#8217;ve seen it done in other industries.  And, having advertised on the Internet, my sense is that the real opportunity to clean up listings and opt out resides with these companies, not the YPs &#8212; it&#8217;s a red herring. And, I am not paid by the YPs industry, I am the target market, and an avid Internet user.  Having just tested the use of the YPs and the Internet, I found that I was able to find, quickly, a pool of more accurately presented potential providers of a new roof, than was available on Google.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.thedeets.com/2009/02/20/does-ken-clark-understand-the-modern-yellow-pages-industry/#comment-8961</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedeets.com/?p=3114#comment-8961</guid>
		<description>I have been reading the posts on this topic with great interest, since it appears to be coming down to a battle of passion as to who is right or wrong in this. Ed makes valuable points about serving the advertisers, since at the end of the day; it is these businesses that have poured their money into the directories in the hopes of making their phones ring. They should be happy to know that the people that are receiving the directories are the ones that really want them. What is the point in spending ad dollars on something that someone does not want?

Then there is Ken and Jaime. Yes, you are right about usage and people turning to the directories. If you look at the independent industry reports, they show that the Yellow Pages is the first place people turn to in an emergency situation, or a life changing event.

There is no right or wrong when it comes to personal beliefs and what they choose to say when it comes to them. To force a person to feel one way or the other would be to deny them of their constitutional rights. The Freedom of Speech comes to mind right away.

I personally am an advocate of the advertisers. It is what servers them the best that at the end of the day makes everyone happy.

The problem with the Yellow Pages industry now, thanks to the government and their deregulation of the phone company, is that publishers are popping up everywhere. Many years ago, in a far simpler time, you got 1 phone book a year. Not a big deal if you ask me. Now there are areas of the country that are saturated with phone books coming from both the telecom and independent publishers. I personally get 4 a year. My cousin told me that she gets 6. Who in the world needs 6 phone books a year? That comes out to 1 every 2 months. Even the catalog companies don’t fire out that many a year, they go by seasons.

So now we have part of the dilemma and one of the big reasons people are getting hostile about these giant 5 lb. books being thrown on their lawns and driveways. It is not once a year, it is every few months.

So let’s go back and take a look at the advertisers now, who are ultimately the ones that are getting caught in the middle of this maelstrom of yellow paper. If an advertiser is in an area where there are 6 directories that they need to be in, out of fear that they are missing a potential customer, then they have to pay to be in every one. Industry usage reports show that there is no clear cut winner in any of this mess either. Each one has a cut of the pie.

Since I happen to have ad rates available, lets look at a half page ad in a major area where there are 6 publishers. My total average cost, for both telecom and independent, would be over $60,000 (based on averages). That comes out to $5,000 a month just to advertise in the Yellow Pages. Based on an average 20% profit margin, the publishers are making $12,000 a year net profit off of this advertiser’s fear of loosing a client. (Rates are usually based upon distribution too I should note)

You do the math now. Why in the world would a publisher want to reduce their delivery rate, when their rates are based on distribution? Why would you care if 3, 4, or even 5% of the people no longer want your directories if it meant that you could no longer bang the advertiser up the ass for what they are currently paying? Why would you care if your directories are dumped in vacant lots or boarded up buildings as long as the numbers are up there and you don’t have to change your distribution numbers and cut your rates?

Who wins in all of this? It is not the advertiser that is for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been reading the posts on this topic with great interest, since it appears to be coming down to a battle of passion as to who is right or wrong in this. Ed makes valuable points about serving the advertisers, since at the end of the day; it is these businesses that have poured their money into the directories in the hopes of making their phones ring. They should be happy to know that the people that are receiving the directories are the ones that really want them. What is the point in spending ad dollars on something that someone does not want?</p>
<p>Then there is Ken and Jaime. Yes, you are right about usage and people turning to the directories. If you look at the independent industry reports, they show that the Yellow Pages is the first place people turn to in an emergency situation, or a life changing event.</p>
<p>There is no right or wrong when it comes to personal beliefs and what they choose to say when it comes to them. To force a person to feel one way or the other would be to deny them of their constitutional rights. The Freedom of Speech comes to mind right away.</p>
<p>I personally am an advocate of the advertisers. It is what servers them the best that at the end of the day makes everyone happy.</p>
<p>The problem with the Yellow Pages industry now, thanks to the government and their deregulation of the phone company, is that publishers are popping up everywhere. Many years ago, in a far simpler time, you got 1 phone book a year. Not a big deal if you ask me. Now there are areas of the country that are saturated with phone books coming from both the telecom and independent publishers. I personally get 4 a year. My cousin told me that she gets 6. Who in the world needs 6 phone books a year? That comes out to 1 every 2 months. Even the catalog companies don’t fire out that many a year, they go by seasons.</p>
<p>So now we have part of the dilemma and one of the big reasons people are getting hostile about these giant 5 lb. books being thrown on their lawns and driveways. It is not once a year, it is every few months.</p>
<p>So let’s go back and take a look at the advertisers now, who are ultimately the ones that are getting caught in the middle of this maelstrom of yellow paper. If an advertiser is in an area where there are 6 directories that they need to be in, out of fear that they are missing a potential customer, then they have to pay to be in every one. Industry usage reports show that there is no clear cut winner in any of this mess either. Each one has a cut of the pie.</p>
<p>Since I happen to have ad rates available, lets look at a half page ad in a major area where there are 6 publishers. My total average cost, for both telecom and independent, would be over $60,000 (based on averages). That comes out to $5,000 a month just to advertise in the Yellow Pages. Based on an average 20% profit margin, the publishers are making $12,000 a year net profit off of this advertiser’s fear of loosing a client. (Rates are usually based upon distribution too I should note)</p>
<p>You do the math now. Why in the world would a publisher want to reduce their delivery rate, when their rates are based on distribution? Why would you care if 3, 4, or even 5% of the people no longer want your directories if it meant that you could no longer bang the advertiser up the ass for what they are currently paying? Why would you care if your directories are dumped in vacant lots or boarded up buildings as long as the numbers are up there and you don’t have to change your distribution numbers and cut your rates?</p>
<p>Who wins in all of this? It is not the advertiser that is for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Mailing List &#171; Easier Being Green</title>
		<link>http://www.thedeets.com/2009/02/20/does-ken-clark-understand-the-modern-yellow-pages-industry/#comment-8956</link>
		<dc:creator>Mailing List &#171; Easier Being Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedeets.com/?p=3114#comment-8956</guid>
		<description>[...] End rant. In other news, Ed Kohler at The Deets has done a great job chronicling issues, trials, and tribulations of citizens opting out of receiving copies of Yellow Pages. And/or pestering YP until they do something about it. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] End rant. In other news, Ed Kohler at The Deets has done a great job chronicling issues, trials, and tribulations of citizens opting out of receiving copies of Yellow Pages. And/or pestering YP until they do something about it. [...]</p>
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