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	<title>Comments on: Minneapolis Police Fail to Protect Bikers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thedeets.com/2008/12/10/minneapolis-police-fail-to-protect-bikers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thedeets.com/2008/12/10/minneapolis-police-fail-to-protect-bikers/</link>
	<description>Consistently against torture.</description>
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		<title>By: Midtown Greenway Crime &#124; east-lake.net</title>
		<link>http://www.thedeets.com/2008/12/10/minneapolis-police-fail-to-protect-bikers/#comment-7909</link>
		<dc:creator>Midtown Greenway Crime &#124; east-lake.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedeets.com/?p=2733#comment-7909</guid>
		<description>[...] for commuters and all bikers, and the safety of the riders is the most important thing. Of course, people complained about the Police response, but I think they were way off base. I thought the police handled this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for commuters and all bikers, and the safety of the riders is the most important thing. Of course, people complained about the Police response, but I think they were way off base. I thought the police handled this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stray Hawkeye &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Minneapolis&#8217; Finest</title>
		<link>http://www.thedeets.com/2008/12/10/minneapolis-police-fail-to-protect-bikers/#comment-7883</link>
		<dc:creator>Stray Hawkeye &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Minneapolis&#8217; Finest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 05:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedeets.com/?p=2733#comment-7883</guid>
		<description>[...] all the time hadn&#8217;t even heard about it.  (The following bit largely echos the sentiment of this post on The Deets.)  Then the police did finally issue a warning.  And it&#8217;s every bit as absurd [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] all the time hadn&#8217;t even heard about it.  (The following bit largely echos the sentiment of this post on The Deets.)  Then the police did finally issue a warning.  And it&#8217;s every bit as absurd [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.thedeets.com/2008/12/10/minneapolis-police-fail-to-protect-bikers/#comment-7873</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 04:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedeets.com/?p=2733#comment-7873</guid>
		<description>The whole reason we have this thing called &quot;government&quot; is so that we can have this other thing called &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_society&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;civil society&lt;/a&gt;.&quot;

What&#039;s civil society? It&#039;s everything that goes on that is made possible by the fact that we &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; have to clutch our swords/maces/sidearms all the time for fear we are going to be killed by our fellow barbarians for our nice new tunics.

How is this possible, that we can walk about without fear of being brained by anyone who happens to walk by? Well, it&#039;s because the government holds a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_the_legitimate_use_of_physical_fordonce&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;monopoly on the legitimate use of violence&lt;/a&gt;. By reserving the right to use violence, the state creates a safe environment so we can have useful economic and public activity. Anyone who employs violence as a means to an end has violated the social contract and is at the mercy of the state&#039;s &quot;violence&quot; (imprisonment, sanction, execution in some states).

It then follows that residents within a state&#039;s jurisdiction are not only entitled to protection from those who would violate the state&#039;s monopoly on violence, but that in order for people to live their everyday lives, &lt;i&gt;they must be able to assume that this is true&lt;/i&gt;! If a Minneapolis resident can&#039;t be reasonably sure that he or she will be safe getting to work in the manner of their choosing, how can we expect them to be functional and productive members of society?

How can we expect our civil society to work at all if we don&#039;t have the government to produce an environment conducive to fostering trust among strangers, even in alleys and dark, sunken bike trails? We can&#039;t.

So how do we fix the problem? Put cops on bikes riding up and down the greenway so one passes by any given point every 15-30 minutes. They can stop and talk to anyone who seems to be loitering (potential muggers) and make their presence clear. Or put up cameras to catch people after the fact. Clear out the current issue, restore trust, make it clear violence on the Greenway will not be tolerated and it won&#039;t return. If it does, repeat the stepped-up enforcement until we&#039;re reasonably sure the government&#039;s monopoly on the use of force has been effectively reasserted in the area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole reason we have this thing called &#8220;government&#8221; is so that we can have this other thing called &#8220;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_society" rel="nofollow">civil society</a>.&#8221;</p>
<p>What&#8217;s civil society? It&#8217;s everything that goes on that is made possible by the fact that we <i>don&#8217;t</i> have to clutch our swords/maces/sidearms all the time for fear we are going to be killed by our fellow barbarians for our nice new tunics.</p>
<p>How is this possible, that we can walk about without fear of being brained by anyone who happens to walk by? Well, it&#8217;s because the government holds a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_the_legitimate_use_of_physical_fordonce" rel="nofollow">monopoly on the legitimate use of violence</a>. By reserving the right to use violence, the state creates a safe environment so we can have useful economic and public activity. Anyone who employs violence as a means to an end has violated the social contract and is at the mercy of the state&#8217;s &#8220;violence&#8221; (imprisonment, sanction, execution in some states).</p>
<p>It then follows that residents within a state&#8217;s jurisdiction are not only entitled to protection from those who would violate the state&#8217;s monopoly on violence, but that in order for people to live their everyday lives, <i>they must be able to assume that this is true</i>! If a Minneapolis resident can&#8217;t be reasonably sure that he or she will be safe getting to work in the manner of their choosing, how can we expect them to be functional and productive members of society?</p>
<p>How can we expect our civil society to work at all if we don&#8217;t have the government to produce an environment conducive to fostering trust among strangers, even in alleys and dark, sunken bike trails? We can&#8217;t.</p>
<p>So how do we fix the problem? Put cops on bikes riding up and down the greenway so one passes by any given point every 15-30 minutes. They can stop and talk to anyone who seems to be loitering (potential muggers) and make their presence clear. Or put up cameras to catch people after the fact. Clear out the current issue, restore trust, make it clear violence on the Greenway will not be tolerated and it won&#8217;t return. If it does, repeat the stepped-up enforcement until we&#8217;re reasonably sure the government&#8217;s monopoly on the use of force has been effectively reasserted in the area.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.thedeets.com/2008/12/10/minneapolis-police-fail-to-protect-bikers/#comment-7868</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 01:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedeets.com/?p=2733#comment-7868</guid>
		<description>Dennis, I&#039;m sorry you have such reading comprehension problems.  My father was mugged on the Minneapolis Greenway.  I happen to live in Japan, where I actually feel safe 100% of the time.

Sure, the police are reactive.  But the problem here is that they &lt;em&gt;are not reacting.&lt;/em&gt;  They&#039;re shirking their responsibilities to fight crime by ignoring the problem and passing the buck to the citizens.  &quot;Just avoid the Greenway&quot; is not a solution.  If everyone thought like you, the whole city would be one giant clusterfuck of crime and you&#039;d be saying &quot;If you can&#039;t take care of yourself then that&#039;s your problem.&quot;  We pay the police to take care of this, end of story.

You may be an &quot;old guy,&quot; but that&#039;s all you are.  You&#039;re not offering wisdom.  You&#039;re advocating willing victimhood.  So yes, I reject your bullshit advice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis, I&#8217;m sorry you have such reading comprehension problems.  My father was mugged on the Minneapolis Greenway.  I happen to live in Japan, where I actually feel safe 100% of the time.</p>
<p>Sure, the police are reactive.  But the problem here is that they <em>are not reacting.</em>  They&#8217;re shirking their responsibilities to fight crime by ignoring the problem and passing the buck to the citizens.  &#8220;Just avoid the Greenway&#8221; is not a solution.  If everyone thought like you, the whole city would be one giant clusterfuck of crime and you&#8217;d be saying &#8220;If you can&#8217;t take care of yourself then that&#8217;s your problem.&#8221;  We pay the police to take care of this, end of story.</p>
<p>You may be an &#8220;old guy,&#8221; but that&#8217;s all you are.  You&#8217;re not offering wisdom.  You&#8217;re advocating willing victimhood.  So yes, I reject your bullshit advice.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.thedeets.com/2008/12/10/minneapolis-police-fail-to-protect-bikers/#comment-7865</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thedeets.com/?p=2733#comment-7865</guid>
		<description>Dennis,

I think your understanding of the police departments &quot;respoct to crime&quot; is a little flawed.  Their job is to be proactive in response to crime.  The motto of the MPD is &quot;To Protect With Courage; To Serve With Compassion.&quot;  How can we as citizens feel protected if all the police are doing is reacting to crime after it&#039;s already happened?  Why do we even have them then?

In about 30 seconds of research on the MPD website I found this:
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/outreach/

&quot;Community Crime Prevention/Safety For Everyone&quot;

&quot;Each precinct is also served by several CCP/SAFE crime prevention specialists. They work with individual neighborhoods to reduce the fear of crime, improve community and police cooperation and improve the quality of life in Minneapolis neighborhoods.

The crime prevention specialists provide educational materials and programs, develop working relationships with the community and assist residents in reducing the opportunity for crime and in solving problems in the community.&quot;

So from these few brief sentences I gathered that the police department does have at least one program for proactive crime prevention.  The problem is telling us to stay off the Greenway is not a reasonable way to solve this problem in our community.  The Greenway was built because there was a community need and request for a safe place for bicyclists to travel.  Our police department needs to do a better job to protect them.  Period. 

I don&#039;t think we need a cop on every corner either but more bike patrols would be great start at proactive prevention.  If I remember correctly millions of tax dollars were spent on training bike cops and buying them equipment for the RNC... so let&#039;s put all of that money and training to use in a proactive way.  I mean... we already have the tools, so let&#039;s use them!

&quot;I haven’t seen any of those bicyclists you talk about coming forward to pay for their private grenways and full-time police protection.&quot;

The Greenways are public... and those bicyclists do pay for them and the police protection... it&#039;s called TAXES!!

I&#039;m pretty much done for now.  Another comment I had was Aaron said he was from Minneapolis, but lives in Japan.  What made you think his father was mugged on a Japanese Greenway?  It was pretty obvious that his father was mugged here...

Oh and this little gem in response to Kohler&quot;
&quot;My guess is your just some college kid with all the ideals propagandized into your lazy mind.&quot;

I laughed pretty hard at that one.  How did you even get to this site?  Did you look at it for more than two seconds?  At the top there&#039;s a bunch of pictures of the guy with his friends and wife and a big link that says &quot;About Ed Kohler&quot;

Thanks for the afternoon chuckle, Dennis.

-Adam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis,</p>
<p>I think your understanding of the police departments &#8220;respoct to crime&#8221; is a little flawed.  Their job is to be proactive in response to crime.  The motto of the MPD is &#8220;To Protect With Courage; To Serve With Compassion.&#8221;  How can we as citizens feel protected if all the police are doing is reacting to crime after it&#8217;s already happened?  Why do we even have them then?</p>
<p>In about 30 seconds of research on the MPD website I found this:<br />
<a href="http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/outreach/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/outreach/</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Community Crime Prevention/Safety For Everyone&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Each precinct is also served by several CCP/SAFE crime prevention specialists. They work with individual neighborhoods to reduce the fear of crime, improve community and police cooperation and improve the quality of life in Minneapolis neighborhoods.</p>
<p>The crime prevention specialists provide educational materials and programs, develop working relationships with the community and assist residents in reducing the opportunity for crime and in solving problems in the community.&#8221;</p>
<p>So from these few brief sentences I gathered that the police department does have at least one program for proactive crime prevention.  The problem is telling us to stay off the Greenway is not a reasonable way to solve this problem in our community.  The Greenway was built because there was a community need and request for a safe place for bicyclists to travel.  Our police department needs to do a better job to protect them.  Period. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we need a cop on every corner either but more bike patrols would be great start at proactive prevention.  If I remember correctly millions of tax dollars were spent on training bike cops and buying them equipment for the RNC&#8230; so let&#8217;s put all of that money and training to use in a proactive way.  I mean&#8230; we already have the tools, so let&#8217;s use them!</p>
<p>&#8220;I haven’t seen any of those bicyclists you talk about coming forward to pay for their private grenways and full-time police protection.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Greenways are public&#8230; and those bicyclists do pay for them and the police protection&#8230; it&#8217;s called TAXES!!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty much done for now.  Another comment I had was Aaron said he was from Minneapolis, but lives in Japan.  What made you think his father was mugged on a Japanese Greenway?  It was pretty obvious that his father was mugged here&#8230;</p>
<p>Oh and this little gem in response to Kohler&#8221;<br />
&#8220;My guess is your just some college kid with all the ideals propagandized into your lazy mind.&#8221;</p>
<p>I laughed pretty hard at that one.  How did you even get to this site?  Did you look at it for more than two seconds?  At the top there&#8217;s a bunch of pictures of the guy with his friends and wife and a big link that says &#8220;About Ed Kohler&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks for the afternoon chuckle, Dennis.</p>
<p>-Adam</p>
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